Protestors protest against the Minutemen. The Minutemen are a group of citizens who have organized border patrols in a bid to catch illegal immigrants before they cross into America:
“LAS VEGAS — Protesters on Sunday gathered outside a meeting where members of a controversial civilian group that has been monitoring the Mexican border gathered with other activists seeking to curb illegal immigration. More than 150 demonstrators used placards and bullhorns and waved Mexican flags to get their message out: “Racists, go home!” they screamed. Hundreds of people had gathered for the two-day summit titled “Unite to Fight Against Illegal Immigration” at a Las Vegas convention center.”
Is protesting them an act of war?
“In a 45-minute speech Sunday, [Minuteman Project founder Jim Gilchrist] said a declaration of war is committed every time a Mexican flag is planted on American soil. “If this isn’t a declaration of war, I don’t know what is,” Gilchrist said.”
I always thought a declaration of war was someone actually declaring war. When people fly Irish flags on their home, does that mean the Irish are declaring war on America? How about those Spring flags, with flowers and butterflies? Is Mother Nature declaring war?
Especially in a post 9/11 world, we need better monitoring of our borders. However, a vigilante group with no oversight is not the answer. Even though some Border Patrol officials “have said the group was little more than a nuisance,” Minutemen claim to have almost 900 in their organization. This is not a handful of vigilantes. This is a large militia.
I don’t know what the law says about their behavior. I guess if it was illegal, somebody would have sued them by now. Do they make citizen’s arrests? Is there really such a legal thing as citizen’s arrest? I’ve only seen that in the movies. Nonetheless, Minutemen are not the answer. If the government wants to clear up the problem, they need to hire and train more Border Patrol officers (there’s a solution for you!).
It’s a gigantic misuse of the term to call the Minutemen “vigilantes.” A vigilante is, by definition, “One who takes or advocates the taking of law enforcement into one’s own hands.” That isn’t what the Minutemen do. All they do is move along the U.S. side of the U.S.-Mexico border and document the locations and numbers of people trying to enter the U.S. illegally. They don’t detain anyone. They don’t arrest anyone. Instead of simply complaining about illegal immigration, they’re providing a solution. Is it ideal? No. If that’s what a vigilante is, then my local Neighborhood Watch program is staffed and led by vigilantes.
I find it amazing that anyone concerned with illegal immigration tends to be called “racist.” It’s easy to throw terms like “vigilante” and “racist” around (even President Bush called the Minutemen vigilantes), but it doesn’t make it right.
By the definition of vigilante, the Minutemen themselves say:
“Are you willing to sacrifice a few days, a week, a month to help do the job that the government should be doing?”
http://www.minutemanhq.com/hq/aboutus.php
According to their leader:
“We’ve been repeatedly accused of being people who are taking the law into our own hands,” said Gilchrist, 56, of Aliso Viejo, Calif. “That is an outright bogus statement. We are going down there to assist law enforcement.”
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,148221,00.html
They clearly advocate taking law enforcement into their own hands. The question is the manner in which they perform that task. Gilchrist says they “assist” law enforcement, but have no official ties to them. Many neighborhood watch groups are in partnership with local law enforcement and actually have official ties to them.
So, all told, the Minutemen are vigilantes. Even President Bush called them vigilantes. “President Bush, who supports a guest worker program (search) that would allow illegal immigrants to stay in the United States, called the Minutemen “vigilantes.” http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,148221,00.html
They also claim they do not detain anyone. I haven’t found anything that says they did or do. However:
“[Customs and Border Protection Commissioner Robert C. Bonner]said “Any time there are firearms and you’re out in the middle of no-man’s land in difficult terrain, it’s a dangerous setting… The Border Patrol does this every day, and they are qualified and very well-trained to handle the situation,” he said. “Ordinary Americans are not. So there’s a danger that not just illegal migrants might get hurt, but that American citizens might get hurt in this situation.”
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,148221,00.html
Minutemen seem a powderkeg waiting for a match. We need more trained professionals out there, not vigilantes.
That’s amazing! If President Bush says it, it’s true?
Generally, no. In this case, yes.
Okay, so the Minutemen don’t do anything that that vigilantes traditionally do, but they’re vigilantes because plenty of people say so. If that’s evidence enough for labeling, I suppose you can call them racists, also. Plenty of people were throwing that eipthet around, despite the lack of evidence to support it. Heck, call them aliens from the planet Quoptping; it has the same meaning.
What, exactly, is wrong with people exercising their legal rights in the cause of upholding the law of the land?
I don’t think they’re vigilantes because other people say so. They’re vigilantes because they fit the definition of vigilante.
There’s nothing wrong with people exercising their rights to uphold the law. I’m all for things such as neighborhood watches and being a witness to the scene of an accident. What I find cause for concern are people with weapons looking for other people with malice aforethought. These people are not trained to do the job. Consequently, the potential for problems is very high. I don’t see many benefits and I see much risk and potentially very high costs.
So without any evidence, you’ve accused the Minutemen of acting with malice aforethought. People who belong to the Neighborhood Watch don’t get government training, either, so there’s also much risk there, too.
So far, all I’ve seen here is a misrepresentation as the title of the post (the Minutemen spokesman only considered the planting of a Mexican flag on American soil to be a declaration of war, not the protesting of the Minutemen’s actions), and name-calling (vigilantes). The vigilante claim was made because…the President said they were vigilantes, not because they committed any crimes or did anything that vigilantes traditionally do. And the Minutemen shouldn’t document illegals crossing the U.S. border because…they don’t have the proper training, there’s an undefined risk attached to their actions, and apparently what they do might cost money.
I’m not seeing a lot that’s particularly substantive here, but I’m willing to acknowledge that you consider the Minutemen to be bad, and move on.
A note on the title of the post; It is not misleading. Since the article isn’t crystal clear, I interpreted Gilchrist’s comments as directed against the protestors, who, while in Las Vegas, Nevada, USA, “waved Mexican flags to get their message out…”
I don’t think it’s fair to argue that Minutemen and Neighborhood Watch groups have any substantive similarity. From what I understand, Neighborhood Watch groups are not armed and do not follow criminals around their neighborhood. From what I understand, they are unarmed and they report suspicious activities, but do not engage in chases of the suspects. Minutemen are armed and do chase suspects.
Further, the costs I’m talking about are not monetary, though money may eventually be involved. The costs I’m talking about are human life and limb. There is a great danger in the Minutemen accidently shooting illegal aliens and/or accidently shooting themselves. This is why the Border Patrol Commissioner said “So there’s a danger that not just illegal migrants might get hurt, but that American citizens might get hurt in this situation.” This guy is an expert and I respect his opinion.
The only thing I said that you are fair to characterize as unsubstantiated is that they act with malice aforethought. Your right, this is not corroborated by any media reports. This is my feeling about armed men and women patrolling the Mexican border looking for Mexicans. I’ll bet many of the Minutemen feel that Mexicans are harming the U.S. and that many have developed an antipathy towards Mexicans. If they feel antipathy towards Mexicans, then they could act with malice aforethought. I could be completely wrong, but I suspect this is the case.
I know of many people who perform their neighborhood watch duties while armed, and as such present the same risk of accidentally shooting themselves, others, animals, the sky, trees, etc. I must add that the notion that people shouldn’t arm themselves because they might hurt themselves or others can be very comfortably extended to people driving in cars, people entering bathtubs (every year, dozens of people slip in the tub and either injure or kill themselves), and people jaywalking.
The Border Patrol Commissioner has a vested interest in keeping the Minutemen down: they show his organization to be ineffectual, if not downright lazy. This is not entirely the Border Patrol’s fault, due to the lack of seriousness the current administration has shown when it comes to keeping the border secure.
Once again, the Minutemen haven’t done anything illegal, and not one person has been injured in the course of their month-long experiment. If they were breaking the law, they’d be arrested. If they were racist or acting maliciously, they’d have said so. Any implication that their spokesman thought that the people protesting the Minutemen’s actions are tantamount to an act of war has been created by you, and not by anything anyone said anywhere.
Sorry, but there’s still no beef here. You can have the last word, and I promise to read it.
Thbbbbbbbbt.